Rabbit Ears Range Western Boundary

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Rabbit Ears Range Western Boundary

Postby Brian Kalet » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:36 pm

Where is the Rabbit Ears Range's western boundary?

If it's Muddy Pass, then Baker Mountain C would not be in the Rabbit Ears Range.
If it's Rabbit Ears Pass, then Baker Mountain would be in both the Gore and Rabbit Ear Ranges.

Is my thinking correct?
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Postby TWorth » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:37 pm

I worked on the lists for Jackson and Routt counties. Can't remember if John K or Ryan S did Grand. I don't recall a decision was made on the exact range boundaries there. Didn't give it any thought at the time.

I haven't read anything definitive in print. An old Ormes edition states Rabbit Ears Pass is the south boundary of the Park Range, but then lists Rabbit Ears Peak as part of the Rabbit Ears Range.

Geographically, it appears Muddy Pass would make a good western boundary for Rabbit Ears Range. Baker and Walton would then be the northernmost peaks in the Gore Range, and then everything north of Rabbit Ears Pass would belong in the Park Range. Only problem is that Rabbit Ears Peak would not be in its namesake range, but its a good fit in the Park Range based on location.
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Postby John Kirk » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:30 pm

This is a question where I'm 100% responsible for the whole state. I added ranges after we were all done with the county files. Rabbit Ears Pass itself isn't the N-S saddle yet. A spot 9559' about a mile west is the North/South divide between the Park and Gore Ranges, however, there is a lower point on the spine of the Gores 6.75 miles SW of that and another even lower drop SE. To the east of this Gore and Park Range N-S spine, is the Continental Divide, and the Continental Divide doesn't line up with the N-S spine unil it is well NW of Rabbit Ears Peak and west of Elmo Benchmark. From a prominence-based definition of Range, Baker would be Park Range since its line parent, Elmo Benchmark has its line parent in the Park Range. If the Rabbit Ears Range is considered the Continental Divide until the N-S spine of the Park Range, Baker (and Rabbit Ears Peak, Elmo) are Rabbit Ears Range. I don't think these can belong to the Gore Range with Muddy Creek draining from south of Elmo Benchmark to Dumont Lake and on between the divides.
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Postby Brian Kalet » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:59 am

According to the map, the Gore Range extends north of the 9559' spot.
Also, Rabbit Ears Pass is lower than 9559', so I don't understand why you say that is the Park-Gore Range boundary.
Many other sources also state that the Park-Gore boundary is Rabbit Ears Pass.

The Tenth Edition of Ormes states that Rabbit Ears Peak is in the Park Range.

I agree with Tim.
The Park-Gore Range boundary is Rabbit Ears Pass and the western boundary of the Rabbit Ears Range is Muddy Pass.
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Postby John Kirk » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:03 pm

The printed portion of the name is of no consequence because there are no more drops and no peaks until a clearly marked Park Range summit. Again, Rabbit Ears Pass is not a saddle, it doesn't matter how high or low it is if there are no peaks to the south of it before dropping off again (unless you want to count those two closed contours as a peak).
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Postby Brian Kalet » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:10 pm

I finally understand what you are saying about the spines of the ranges, where they intersect and logical boundaries for the ranges. However, these ranges were defined before our time. It might be appropriate to use the accepted boundaries or create a page to define them yourself for use on your site. What do you feel about those options?
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Postby John Kirk » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:51 pm

Part of the problem I had when assigning ranges is there doesn't seem to be a definitive source/consensus stating what the accepted boundaries are. I don't believe the Ormes guide is the end-all, be-all. I could document the method for each case, but inherently range assignment comes with problems/inconsistencies. Several people warned me not to publish range information since there are so many ways to allocate - proximity, prominence lineage, geology, water drainage, or ridge crest/divide intersection.
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Postby TWorth » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Good to see the can of worms making an appearance.

John, I see your point about Baker not being in the Gore Range, kinda hard to include it when it's cut off from the Gore divide by Muddy Creek.

Topographically Baker does look to be Park rather than Rabbit Ears, since Muddy Pass is lower than the pass north of Elmo. This conflicts with the historical "north of Rabbit Ears Pass" Park Range definition. So which definition is best? Both have merit. I'd still favor the historical definition in this case, but there's no arbitrator for this kind of thing.

There's always the cop-out approach, saying Baker doesn't belong to any range. That's not really true though.

BTW, GNIS puts Rabbit Ears Pass here. Reminds me of La Veta pass, with an "old" pass and then a north pass where the highway goes through.

Despite all the gray areas with ranges, I'd still like to see Bob Martin's(or Gerry Roach's) range list as a members area someday. Maybe put Bob's explanation on the front of the page.
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Postby John Kirk » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:29 am

Topographic Prominence being the least subjective rule, I'll change Baker, Rabbit Ears and Elmo to Park Range.

Tim-
On the topic of Range HP's, I know Bob's list (same as what Gerry has published, I believe) is lacking many ranges. Did I CC you on the list I sent to Bob Packard about a year ago? That is probably the closest living document to a finished product. For the LOJ database, I need to further subdivide many of the ranges I have (such as Elks, Front, San Juan, etc). I also do not have ranges listed at all for other states :oops: . That would be a fun project, but my latest obsession/project is producing the highest 1000 list for the Contig US - almost finished with CA's 12k+ counties.

A collaborative effort to define ranges would be fabulous (hint, hint).

Perhaps the best approach is to define boundaries either using TOPO's route tool or by listing coords for every 1/2 mile or so in a polygonal representation. Then I can update peaks with range based on their inclusion in the polygon.
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Postby TWorth » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:06 pm

Ah, there's always another project. And like an idiot I usually agree to help. :toothless:

Yeah, I'd be interested in working with the range definitions. A nice change of pace from the tedium of P300 hunting.
I'm a bit busy with work at the moment, but should have more time into November and beyond.

I'll have to dig up that excel file you mention, it's likely buried somewhere within the innards of my computer. I recall it being pretty comprehensive.

Starting with CO would probably be a good idea. For NM, I think Mark Nichols or Andy Martin have done a range HP list. For MT I found this article which gives some rough range boundaries - see map at right of page. Also a couple of interesting articles on peak lists/climbing in that state(thanks Jerry B).
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Re: Rabbit Ears Range Western Boundary

Postby Scott Patterson » Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:02 am

According to the book The Continental Divide Mountains of Colorado's Rabbit Ears Range-A Mountain Climbing Guide and History; the Rabbit Ears Range extends from the meeting of the Park Range on the west and the Never Summer Range on the east. Both Rabbit Ears Peak and Baker Mountain are included as part of the Rabbit Ears Range, though Rabbit Ears Peak is where the Park and Rabbit Ears ranges meet (according to the book). The history part of the book credits Clarence King in defining the boundaries of the Rabbit Ears Range in his 1871 and 1872 surveys and cites King's Geological and Topographical Atlas of the Fortieth Parallel published in 1876. Perhaps this makes some sense because Rabbit Ears Peak itself is a volcanic plug and most of the other peaks in the Rabbit Ears Range are volcanic as well, unlike the Park and Gore Ranges (unless Rabbit Ears Peak is included in those ranges).

The book History of Routt County credits Rabbit Ears Peak as the meeting point of the Park, Gore, and Rabbit Ears Ranges.

The topo maps also seem to verify that the Park and Gore Ranges do indeed meet at Rabbit Ears Peak.

Notice that the topo map definitely show that the Gore Range extends north of US 40 and north of any saddle:

Image

Also notice that Rabbit Ears Peak is roughly half way between the words "Park Range" and "Gore Range" and that the labeling of both is very near the peak.

Image

Although some are looking for a saddle to define the boundary of the ranges, it appears that the boundary of the ranges is Rabbit Ears Peak itself although except for perhaps the Rabbit Ears Range it remains unclear as to why a peak was chosen as the boundary of the ranges (though the two ranges are merely named different; geologically the Park and Gore Ranges are one and the same and part of the "Greater Park Range").

Edit and update:

I was able to find the Report of the Geological Exploration of the Fortieth Parallel online, but not the referenced Geological and Topographical Atlas of the Fortieth Parallel online. In the former it mentions Rabbit Ears Peak as part of the Park Range study and says that the Park Range was named by James T Gardener. It also says the termination of the range is at Pelham Peak on the north, but I haven't gotten to where it says the southern boundary is. I also can't figure out which peak Pelham is and find no current reference to it online or on any topo map.

Anyway, the report is 803 pages long and it might take a while to skim through.
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